In a matter of a few days in May 2009, I decided,somewhat suddenly, to leave my nearly life-long home of New York City to move to Hong Kong. When asked, why, I have just one simple response: Because it’s time. That has, unsurprisingly, been entirely unsatisfactory to most friends, and you know what – even I am not quite sure what has led me this way. This blog explores that question, and when I get there, should explore the further questions of ”what are you doing in Hong Kong?”, “what are you feeling in Hong Kong”, “when are you coming back??”
From one concrete jungle to another – a New Yorker in Hong Kong
I stumbled upon your blog in search of information regarding the OLQE. I am a lawyer in New Zealand and did the NY Bar early this year (bit of a strange combo I know). I am originally from Hong Kong and did an internship in a NY firm but decided that conversion exams, PCLL and training contract was probably a waste of time. I thought a different road would still lead me back to the same place.
I assume you practiced in NY and are now battling your way through the OLQE. I am 2nd yr solicitor which means that I will have to do all the heads (except common law). How hard is the OLQE? I was lucky enough to work and pull through NY at the same time. This thing can’t be that much harder than NY right?
Would appreciate if you could share some of your thoughts on OLQE vs NY Bar.
Thanks!!
Gerry
Hi Gerry — gonna try to keep this short, but please feel free to contact me again with your email, and I’ll reply more fully — In short, I agree, the whole PCLL/traineeship route is just ridiculous. For starters — can you get a job in HK practicing NY law and then get the 3 years more exp you want in order to waive out of more exams? That is probably ideal. I have a British classmate taking 4 heads all at once while working here in HK – so people do do it. The thing is, you DO need time — no single head is anywhere near as hard as the NY bar exam, it’s true, but there is a whole other challenge to studying a bunch of law subjects in such depth and writing 4×3.5 hour essay exams – worst of all, while working. This guy taking 4 heads will be getting one week off per head as test date approaches, which I hear is standard. Hope this helps, but again, contact me with contact info and I will do my best to answer further.
Thank you very much for your reply. My email is gerry.wong@russellmcveagh. Hope to stay in touch.
I am looking at opportunities in both Hong Kong and Singapore. The recruiters are saying that firms are looking for applicants who are willing to be locally qualified so will have to think about whether to take on the challenge.
Regards,
Gerry
Hi, this is Jasmine from the states. I’m an undergraduate student who’s currently a junior, majoring in B.A. Political Science. I’m planning to go to law school (aiming one of Top 20) in the US, and have done several internships in states and overseas. I reached your blog while I was doing research on ‘how to become a lawyer in HK.’ After graduating from law school in the states, passing from BAR exam, I’m planning to either become lawyer in the states or in HK. I’m thinking of being a lawyer in HK. However, I found out there’s not much informations I could find about this, so I’m leaving this comment to hear your thoughts. I want to know how hard is getting a job in HK as a US lawyer, even though I can’t speak any of Chinese, and if I want to get more opportunities is it necessary to take any kind of exams to become qualified lawyer in HK? I understand as a US lawyer there’s limited work I could do in HK. I will be happy if I hear from you. Thanks!
Best,
Jasmine
Hi Jasmine. Please understand that even if you don’t take any time off between law school and college, you’re still talking about something that is about 4.5 years in the future. So many things may change by that time, especially as rumor has had it that the Law Society plans to change the Overseas Lawyer rules for some time
While some planning may be useful if you are pursuing a future in a foreign country, this may be extremely premature if you aren’t 100% sure of your plans of where to practice law (or even be a lawyer?). I think if you feel certain enough about what you want to do when you ‘grow up’, I think the first query is whether or not you feel committed enough to go to law school in HK or another more similar jurisdiction like England and follow with the PCLL than get qualified in the US. Try looking up those rules. As I’ve mentioned in my posts already, the OLQE currently consists of 5 exams, 4 of which you’d have to prepare if you came straight to HK after graduating.
I know this doesn’t answer all your burning questions but without even knowing what type of law you will practice or what other qualifications you will amass by the time you move, it would be very hard to predict or advise. Good luck. My best advice is to enjoy the process in front of you now than one so far in the future.
Hi there!
Very interesting blog.
I have been in Hong Kong as a foreign lawyer (qualified in England and Wales even though I am French) for over a year working in a local Chinese firm and I am now toying with the idea of taking the OLQE next fall. I would very much appreciate your thoughts about the exam. Did you only have to take the 2 heads you passed? Being under 3 years PQE I have to take 4 heads so I want to get an idea of how much work this requires. Anyway, any thoughts appreciated. Please feel free to email me at stellainhk at gmail.com.
Many thanks!
Stella
Hi Stella. I’m going to answer publicly, since this seems to be the most queried subject on the blog:
While the fewer heads the better, many still go ahead and take 4 heads before acquiring the requisite 5 years of experience because 1) there is the constant threat of the Law Society changing the format, and a known enemy is always better than an unknown one, and 2) it does seem to be increasingly required in the legal market by both international and local firms alike. Having taken 2 heads, I can tell you it’s no walk in the park and you definitely will need time. Will your firm help to sponsor your prep course? Will it give you time to study? Study leave? (Many firms seem to give one week per head. At 4 heads, that’s already a whole month off recommended.) These are some questions to ask now. The area prep courses start around beginning of August, and prepare students for up to 5 heads at a time (heads start end of October through November, and Head V in December, but only if you have passed Heads I-IV). I was lucky to not be working full-time during this study period, and I would say you definitely need some solid time off just prior to the exams. Hope this helps!
Hi, many thanks for that! Yes it is very helpful as I won’t have any support whatsoever from my firm either in paying for a prep course or taking the time off. I may need to rethink taking the course for the time being…
Thanks again!
Stella
Hi ya. Very interesting blog! I wish I’d found it sooner as I’ve been researching about the OLQE. I was put onto your blog by a girl I have chatted with on an expat forum who suggested I take a look at your page.
I am a lawyer in New Zealand and will have 2 yrs post-admission experience by the end of June (my bf and I are looking to move to HK around July as he has just got a job there). I’m tossing up whether I should be sitting the OLQE or not. I’m currently working in commercial law but am keen to shift into a litigation role. I have had mixed comments on this. Some people have told me I would find it very difficult to get into litigation and to simply register as a foreign lawyer while others have said I should sit the exams this year.
I have also heard mixed reviews about LexOmnibus, particulary Heads 2 and 3. I was just wondering how you found Heads 2 and 3 with IP Learning and overall, how did you find IP Learning? I looked on their website and the testimonials are definitely encouraging. As with anyone, I don’t want to pass so want to ensure that if I do decide to take the courses, I get the best preparatory learning possible. Would love to hear your thoughts or feel free to email me privately (aoife_griffin@hotmail.com).
Does HK’s OLQE share much similarity with Australian law?
I’m sorry I can’t comment on that, since I’ve no Australian law experience, but since HK law is largely derived from England & Wales, and will draw precedent from Australia, I’m guessing there are similarities.
Oops…I DO want to pass
Hi Aoife – happy to do my best to help, and for the sake of any other curious OLQE-takers, will do so publicly.
Timing. If you plan to arrive July, and take the OLQE, you should have already completed your entire application for registration. The latest and greatest in the application should be published some time later this month (April), and assumign the timetable is the same as last year’s, you will need to have completed your application by early July, including getting certificates of good standing from your home jurisdiction.
To do or not to do. For HK, corporate law is far more popular and still holds more in terms of opportunities. Plus, unlike litigation, you are not essentially required to be HK qualified. If I were you, I’d just come and look for a job in corporate (get a headhunter to help you now as this is the season to look) and see how that goes before making the switch or even taking the exam. At 2 years PQE, you’d still need to take 4 heads, which is not easy. But if you are dead set on switching practice areas at this stage of your career, then you must take these exams (more or less). Also, the practice of litigation, as I’m finding (and ought to post on later) seems rather peculiar (at least to me) in HK. Might not differ so much from NZ though.
Courses. I did hear mixed reviews on LexOmnibus, but it is one of the most popular courses (populous, at least), and a good percentage do pass. I loved my course and the teachers. As I mentioned before, the class size is small and intimate, and you focus on questions. It was effective for me, and while the courses are similarly priced – so much better value for the money. I only took Heads I and III, so can’t speak for II. When I started III, I was mortified and unsure how I’d ever get through it – but in the end, I did pass. I cannot speak more positively about IP Learning and Colin Wright, and will be writing my own testimonial soon.
BTW – so flattered my blog has gotten notice by someone else and that I can be of help! If I can help with anything more, feel free to ask. Based on all these inquiries, I feel somewhat obligated now to keep up my OLQE/overseas lawyer in HK posts!
Hi, this is Emon. I have just finished my traineeship in HK. I bumped into your site when searching for admission information. Your blog is great! Keep writing! Cheers!
Hello..
I stumbled on your post. I sat for the Head I exam yesterday (3 Nov). It was a little unnerving and I am now wondering how strict they are with the marking. I was rushed for time for the 4th question and probably missed quite a essential issues. I am doing 2 Heads with a full time job (UK qualified) and lack of study time was the main problem.
From your own experience (and what you have heard), did you think the Head I marking was strict? Thanks for any thoughts you have on this. (I know this post-event rant is not particularly productive, but just feeling a little blue….)
Hi Sam – so sorry to hear about this bad experience, but it’s over and you should just prepare for your next head! I can’t say much about how strict or lax marking is. When you pass, you never learn your scores or see your paper. The only thing I know re: marking is that it’s all about GAINING points, so as long as you did your best to write up as much as you can to get even half a mark, that helps. You don’t lose points for writing wrong things. Oh, and speaking of, half marks are rounded UP. So, just try to forget it for now. Generally the biggest thing about these exams is making sure you stay on track for time and write as much as you can to get points here and there. Bear these pointers for your next exam — esp on time, and worry about this in Jan/Feb, or whenever it is that the results come out next year.
Thanks for the reply. I struggled with the final question due to lack of time (it was a seven-part question), I put down short answers for each part (i.e. some with authorities, some without). I dealt with the other 3 questions pretty adequately (I think). Do you recall any of your class/course mates saying the same (as me) and yet got through in the end? Cheers.
Hi
I stumbled upon this blog while researching on studying for the NY bar in Hong Kong. I apologise in advance if my post is unrelated, just thought I’d give it a shot to reach out for any advice.
Im a qualified HK lawyer, working in HK and am considering taking the NY bar next Feb. Would you happen to know of anyone who has recently done the NY bar barbri course (preferably 2011) and still has their books, willing to sell? I’d be more than happy to purchase them off you.
Thanks very much
Mishka
I’m sorry I cannot help you directly. I definitely recommend a course, though I knew someone who passed just from studying from his wife’s materials while working! You should also double-check all the requirements — I knew that there was some requirement for foreign lawyers to have an ABA-approved LLM degree, but not sure how that works. I also understand that some folks needn’t do that. But the NY Bar is a whole other creature and from my recollection, is a LOT of material to learn and understand. I spent a LOT of time studying for that one and was not working, as I’d just graduated from law school when I took it. Good luck!!
Hi
I found this blog via google while researching on careers in relation to a law degree in Hong Kong, and it’s a great insight into life as a lawyer in Hong Kong!
I was just wondering…I am just in my 1st year of Law school in Scotland, studying bachelors of law (LLB) and I am actually 100% chinese but born in Scotland, but my language in Cantonese is fluent and I do speak it regularly while able to actually some read and write some chinese as well.. I do want to move back to Hong Kong after university but in order to be a solicitor in Hong Kong … I do need to do my diploma then train in Scotland first, right? Or can I just go straight to Hong Kong to doing the training and diploma? Is it recommended? If I didn’t want to become a solicitor , is Hong Kong keen on employing people from overseas with a law degree? Would doing a masters in law be worth it if I wanted to get a pretty good job in Hong Kong?
I’m so sorry for asking so many questions! I’m just pretty confused about my future as a law student….I also plan to maybe go to hong kong for my 3rd year as an exchange student! I love Hong Kong, the busy lifestyle is so much better compared to the life and working style in Scotland!
Thanks!
Jessie.
Hi Jessie – that sure is a lot of questions, but, as I’d advised another commenter who was not even in law school yet, you need to take things one at a time right now — you have barely even embarked on your proposed future profession yet! As you yourself hint at – you may not even ultimately become a solicitor! The thing about law education is that you can enter so many different practice areas, arenas, or even something having nothing to do with law. I’d say for the time being, go forward with your LLB in Scotland. The Commonwealth states actually practice law so much more similarly to each other than the US, which is what makes my experience very different ultimately. With a Commonwealth LLB, you can always come to HK and do your PCLL, followed by traineeship and practice just as you would in Scotland. Also, given the availability of overseas lawyers having the ability to go through the OLQE process (which I wrote about at length in this blog) to then become HK solicitors, you still have that avenue too. (BTW, my boss is from Scotland!)
I also think your idea of studying abroad in HK is a great idea, and you may even wish to explore internships during the summers in HK (one of my colleagues, whom I first met when taking the OLQE, did a secondment during his trainee period to the HK office).
My final recommendation is that you look into learning Mandarin and improve your reading and writing. It is not required, but it is increasingly preferred. Knowing Cantonese is helpful for office integration (getting jokes, getting along with others in a way more intimate than those gweilos who cannot speak, communicating with lower level staff), but not so much for work, except local practices reaching HKers who don’t really speak English. I will aim to write a post on this, actually, as it is something that has come up a bit in comments.
Thanks for writing and reading – I hope this helps and indeed, you’ve inspired me to work harder in posting more frequently!
Hi!
Thanks so much for such a helpful and quick response! I guess I’m a bit anxious on the future since jobs are hard to find nowadays! Just got to hope that as time goes by the economy would slowly rise up again…. hahahaah…
Oh i see! Will I have to go through any conversion processes if I do decide to the PCLL in Hong Kong? They can be Government funded if you are selected?
Haha!! Is your boss from Scotland? Which part is he from? If it’s the good old Glasgow that would be funny(I’m from there too) ….I bet he doesn’t miss the very very very cold icy snowy weather….and all that rain we get!!!! Are you used to his Scottish accent? Even although I have one myself….I don’t find the way I speak particularly nice in the Scottish tone!! Haha!!!
But anyways, thank you so much for the response! I will definitely look into doing mandarin during my time in university!
Now, back to my studying for my last exam for this term….I will keep working hard!
Jessie
Jessie – sorry for the late reply. From what I’ve learned, non-HK law grads have to take conversion exams and then apply for a spot in the PCLL (where there are only 3 programs in Hong Kong, and seats are not guaranteed to non-HK law grads). I don’t know about government funding. I do know that some people do their PCLL part-time over 2 years so that they can work at the same time and earn some $$.
Another NY lawyer who recently moved to HK. I’d love to meet up for coffee sometime.
Haha Steven – that’s a first request! I like hiding behind the blog, even though I’m fairly forthright about my life at the same time. Surely we will run into each other in the tiny HK legal community soon! And of course, feel free to post any questions that you think I may be of help with!
Just to report back that I passed both Heads of the OLQE that I sat for in November! (I was having a bit of a whinge on this forum back in November.) The results arrived in the post on Friday (24Feb). I am glad it is all over !
Sam! Wonderful news! Congrats and good luck on getting together your admissions documents!
Thanks! I have been trying to get my head around the Law Society’s info package regarding admissions. I have a question on the residency requirement, which you might be able to shed some light on. I am thinking of opting for the “I have resided in HK for at least 3 months immediately before my admission” route. I am based in HK (i.e. been working and living here for the last 3 years) but travelled home over the CNY period (in January). Do I satisfy the 3-month residence requirement?
Thanks !
Hi Sam – I remembered using the 3-month route as being the most straightforward. As long as your passport shows those 3-months (even though they can’t look into future travel between now and the admission), you should be fine. I don’t recall being terribly concerned about travel I’d taken in between — since the exams in the Fall and the results coming out, I had travelled quite a few weeks too. I also could show a valid work visa, further supporting my residency (i.e., I was not in and out on tourist visas). Hope that helps – good luck. It’s rather tedious, and I have a few posts on the matter that may be of help.
I just wanted to let you know how I have enjoyed reading your blog. I am embarking on a similar journey to Hong Kong and it was so inspirational to find someone who went down a similar path. I could definitely relate to your comment that it was time for the change. I am planning on flying in to Hong Kong in April and have had brief moments of panic about this life changing trip. Your blog has provided me with solace in knowing that through perseverance, I too can find success in this new journey in life. I would love to hear more about your experience if you are interested in exchanging emails. Thank you again.
Thanks Lisa! I’m so glad I can be of help, and I love fanmail! If you have a query that might help the greater public, please feel free to ask away and I’ll do my best to answer publicly. If it’s of a more private nature… I can understand. I will try to set up an e-mail button on the page in the coming future for that.
Stumbled to your blog. My odessey was the other way round, from Hong Kong to New York. I grew up in Hong Kong and graduated from college there. Then, I immigrated to the U.S., went to law school here and got admitted to the bars of New York, New Jersey and DC. Since then, I have been practicing as an attorney for 15 years. Two years ago, I took and passed the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test and since last year I have been additionally a solicitor of England and Wales. I thought about getting admitted to HK and checked the Overseas Lawyers Qualification Examination, but decided that I have enough of the bar examinations for now even though I think the trend nowdays is to have bar admission to multiple jurisdications.
The funny thing is that I interned at the HK Legal Aid Department in 1991. That was the time when the University of Hong Kong was the only school providing PCLL courses and City University, then known as City Polytechnic, was just starting its law school. I remembered the airconditioing was always in full blast at the High Courts in Admiralty and an afternoon hearing after lunch would meant sitting in seemingly subzero temperature with my sweaty shirt and suite sticking to my skin. Many jurist and learned counsels had fallen ill because of that! I hope things are different now.